Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Im not suggesting that gay men are nesh as gay or straight has no bearing on manliness . I just feel that puff means nesh and has nothing at all to do with gay men . But i do agree that men are programmed by upbringing that to ask for help is weak and must be seen to behave in a certain way . No I know you wasn't. But I was just trying to highlight the implications of such language use and the reasons for their associations. It is all socially constructed you see, the word nesh has nothing to do with the word homosexuality, specifically. Yet we align the word 'puff' with being nesh, becauses being nesh is deemed by some in society as being not manly (and not being manly is associated by some as being gay). This is the only reason these two words are commonly associated in our everyday language. Edited May 21, 2012 by Lawrie Maddens Hump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadingOwl Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 In school they told us that Tsar Nicholas II's son, Alexei suffered from homophobia. Of course, in those days you had little or no chance of "coming out" as you modern young rascals put it. How times have changed! Don't you mean haemophilia? Do I get a whoosh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedOwl Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I think just going from my experiences of living right in the centre of Amsterdam, a city which could perhaps be said to be as 'gay-friendly' as anywhere, that many of the gay folk I'm acquainted with really do tend to, as Deirdre said, just 'get on with it.' A case in point being the annual gay pride week which gets people flocking to Amsterdam from all around the world; whenever I'd ask any of them whether they're doing anything special during the week I was surprised at first just how many don't really plan on doing anything special - indeed, some say they purposefully avoid it. I suppose it's only speculation as to why they don't wish to bother with it, and no doubt their reasons will differ, but perhaps from the positions of their tranquil lives in Amsterdam where gays can live at ease in society, to attend a festival which celebrates their own sexual orientation and freedom, would seem as unnecessary to them as it would to heterosexuals to celebrate heterosexuality. After all, since Pride movements tend to be born of groups of persecuted or disenfranchised individuals, if you take the persecution and lack of full rights out of that equation then an overt Pride (in being gay, black, female etc.) loses its reason-to-be. That's Amsterdam though (and perhaps only the centre, at that), and societies elsewhere are perceived (at least) to offer up more resistance to gays. It's then that it's not so simple to say that they should just 'get on with it'; a lot of water has to go under the bridge before they can really live as a gay person without resistance in all aspects of their lives. Until that point, the act of 'coming out' is likely to have at least some possible repercussions in a person's work, family, and social life. And for a footballer you have to add the most vicious and unruly aspect of all - being in the public eye. If I were a gay footballer, I personally don't think I'd come out. I'm sure that feeling the need to conceal my sexuality wouldn't sit easily with me and I'd also know it would be good for myself, other gay footballers, and the sport in general if a gay footballer were to publicly come out, but I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. I'm sure I'd admire whoever would do it, but I certainly wouldn't envy him. I think I'd prefer to just quietly get on with my private life whilst coming to terms with whatever limitations would be placed on it. Would seem like the line of least resistance to me I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMortimer Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 If I were a gay footballer, I personally don't think I'd come out. I'm sure that feeling the need to conceal my sexuality wouldn't sit easily with me and I'd also know it would be good for myself, other gay footballers, and the sport in general if a gay footballer were to publicly come out, but I wouldn't want to be the one to do it. I'm sure I'd admire whoever would do it, but I certainly wouldn't envy him. I think I'd prefer to just quietly get on with my private life whilst coming to terms with whatever limitations would be placed on it. Would seem like the line of least resistance to me I think. This is an interesting point. Is it possible that the fear of 'coming out' is actually overstated and that the idea is reinforcing itself whilst no one proves it wrong? It's already been discussed that the first one to make a big issue would no doubt be under pressure from the gay community as some sort of trailblazer. As you say, maybe it's just best to keep a low profile and not be the one to find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoryBell Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Don't you mean haemophilia? Do I get a whoosh? Not sure. Thinks.....be careful, he's obviously clever, otherwise he wouldn't dare to boast about his literacy skills by proxy through his username. It could be a trap. I mean...homophobia, haemophilia, homophilia, haemophobia, necrophobia. Do I actually know what any of thse mean? Or if they are even real words? I'm b0ll0xed here. If I say something to try and cover up my tracks I will just look worse. Oh, man - I'm in over my head. Better to leave it. Yes, leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedOwl Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is an interesting point. Is it possible that the fear of 'coming out' is actually overstated and that the idea is reinforcing itself whilst no one proves it wrong? It's already been discussed that the first one to make a big issue would no doubt be under pressure from the gay community as some sort of trailblazer. As you say, maybe it's just best to keep a low profile and not be the one to find out? Yeah, I think that it's quite probably true - but even if I suspected that that were the case, it would still represent a risk that I don't think I'd want to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopePiusX Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Yeah, I think that it's quite probably true - but even if I suspected that that were the case, it would still represent a risk that I don't think I'd want to take. But placed against that is the fact that in another sport Gareth Thomas did, and that hasn't happened at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnedOwl Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 But placed against that is the fact that in another sport Gareth Thomas did, and that hasn't happened at all. True, and perhaps I'd find that encouraging - but I suppose rugby doesn't have anything like the profile that football does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopePiusX Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 True, and perhaps I'd find that encouraging - but I suppose rugby doesn't have anything like the profile that football does. It probably isn't far off in Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 True, and perhaps I'd find that encouraging - but I suppose rugby doesn't have anything like the profile that football does. True but what it does have is a lot of articulate players who would be able to speak to the media about the pitfalls of getting a re-action within the game and subsequent media fall out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff_Owl Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 True but what it does have is a lot of articulate players who would be able to speak to the media about the pitfalls of getting a re-action within the game and subsequent media fall out Drinking at your seat Having different fans sat next to each other Seeing a bit of respect for the ref Having openly gay players and officials Seems like Rugby people and fans can deal with things like adults where football fans can't, or at least that's how they are treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopePiusX Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Gareth Thomas, however, was a hugely popular figure in Wales and Welsh Rugby, if anybody in any sport in any country was going to be OK after his announcement then it would have been him I suppose. Steve Davies (the wicket-keeper, not the misspelled snooker player) is another who came out without any fuss in cricket, but I'm not sure how valid that comparison is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniper1 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 One thing i have learned from this thread is that gays have no sense of humour. NO ONE F'KIN CARES IF YOU ARE GAY, GET OVER YOURSELF AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 One thing i have learned from this thread is that gays have no sense of humour. NO ONE F'KIN CARES IF YOU ARE GAY, GET OVER YOURSELF AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. hmmm... I think Freud was right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniper1 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 hmmm... I think Freud was right What? Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Plus, I imagine it would be a lot easier for a rugby player to 'come out' to his teammates because they've all been balls deep in each other anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniper1 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Plus, I imagine it would be a lot easier for a rugby player to 'come out' to his teammates because they've all been balls deep in each other anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyem Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Drinking at your seat Having different fans sat next to each other Seeing a bit of respect for the ref Having openly gay players and officials Seems like Rugby people and fans can deal with things like adults where football fans can't, or at least that's how they are treated. Yeah, right. Even with free beer, and all the chumliness(??) you mention, "rugger" could never be even one tenth as popular as football. Because it involves an oval ball, which doesn't roll properly, lots of flying teeth, and lots of clever songs like (As Marseillese) "Two Frenchmen went to the lavatory, for to have a bloody good poo ". (V.fekkin mature, I don't think) I think the missing ingredients are... SKILL and PASSION! Edited May 21, 2012 by tonyem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lawrie Maddens Hump Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 One thing i have learned from this thread is that gays have no sense of humour. NO ONE F'KIN CARES IF YOU ARE GAY, GET OVER YOURSELF AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE. That's just not funny! :st2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniper1 Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 That's just not funny! :st2: Argh, no way, not you, please say this isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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