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#1 jonnybarr

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

23 years ago today 96 football fans went to watch their team in a semi final and never returned home to their loved ones. Being from Liverpool myself and my friend losing his brother on that fateful day I have seen the effects of that game and how it still dragging on isn't helping anybody. I think us, Liverpool and forest fans should all have a minute today to realise it is only a game and nobody should ever not return home from a football match. I really love my beloved owls but there is more important things in my life and we should all have a minute to think about that as we are the lucky ones who are still here


#2 shandypants

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:49 AM

With the absolute utmost respect and with my greatest sympathy for you and particularly your friend and his family, I feel that we (Wednesdayites) should be allowed to move on from this now. I support the '96' families campaign for full transparency, however, it's been 23 years now and I think it's time that SWFC and it's fans should be released from this hidden/implied burden of guilt that we have been carrying since that terrible day.

I do not wish to offend and I hope you appreciate my sincerity.

#3 MAL

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

Good post Shandy.

#4 wadsleybridgeowl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:23 AM

I for one agree with the op and as a wednesdayite for 40 years and someone who attended the match , i will be taking a private moment to remember and reflect on the events of that day . RIP the 96

#5 TrickyTrev

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

Rest in peace to the 96.

#6 JC Saviour

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

Condolences to the OP for the loss of a family member. Like one of the replies, we have to move on and no one likes to see loss of life in these type of circumstances including the Hysel disaster which I make a point of remembering for the Italians who lost their lives. However, we don't seem to hear much about that disaster in this country. For those who can't remember this or wasn't born then, I believe it was a European game involving a italian club and Liverpool FC.

#7 Leaping Lannys Perm

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:46 AM

Condolences to the OP for the loss of a family member. Like one of the replies, we have to move on and no one likes to see loss of life in these type of circumstances including the Hysel disaster which I make a point of remembering for the Italians who lost their lives. However, we don't seem to hear much about that disaster in this country. For those who can't remember this or wasn't born then, I believe it was a European game involving a italian club and Liverpool FC.

Liverpool vs Juventus - 1985 European Cup (now Champions League) Final

#8 JC Saviour

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:47 AM

Liverpool vs Juventus - 1985 European Cup (now Champions League) Final

Thanks.

#9 ClaireTheDonnyOwl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

Perhaps those who went without tickets should also take a minute to think.......

My heart goes out to those who lost family and friends that day.

#10 barmyowl1212

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:07 PM

Perhaps those who went without tickets should also take a minute to think.......

My heart goes out to those who lost family and friends that day.


Irony of that is that they sing about the JFT96.

RIP

#11 asteener1867

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

R.I.P the 96...I always take the time
Hillsborough on to Heysel.......recall the 39?

Why as a Wednesday fan I feel so fookin' guilty, still, about a tragedy that in no way was owt to do with me bar it happened at the football ground I attend...I dunno...
Is there no scouser will ever hold his hands up and admit he went, he tried to get in without a ticket?...I honestly do not believe it.
You sit here and read every bloody topic on the board about this particular tragedy....and you try to express your sympathy to the families involved...because it was innocent fans that lost their lives that day...and we should..nor in my case could ever fookin' forget it...but allayed to that as a football fan you KNOW what happens at games like that...and you KNOW that there is fault with the police, the stewards, the ground...and good luck to the peopl;e pursuing these invisible phantoms of Hillsborough...but i will never be convinced there is not at least SOME fault on the part of fans who were trying to get into the game...come what may...
Wednesday fans have to shuffle heads down around the subject...While stuff like Heysel gets brushed under a carpet of indifference cos it was Italians that died and not English folk...
R.I.P the 96...every time I walk down the Lepp I think about it...but it honestly was not my fault.....I bet there are people not only in Sheffield but in Liverpool that cannot.. in all honesty say the same

#12 wadsleybridgeowl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:30 PM

amen brother

#13 brian joicey

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:43 PM

Perhaps those who went without tickets should also take a minute to think.......

My heart goes out to those who lost family and friends that day.

^^^ EXACTLY THIS ^^^

* until i hear statements from those inside(and outside) hillsborough WITHOUT tickets i will not believe the 'transparency' that is sought by the campaign for justice has been achieved.

sorry to have to say this on today of all days - RIP the 96 and sincere condolences to their families and friends

Edited by brian joicey, 15 April 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#14 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

well said
I have said it on here before when I was a student nurse at Middlewood I was working with a Liverpool fan. He asked me if I could get him a ticket, I couldn't. Not to worry he says me and me mates will do what we always do,force our way in. Went on to tell me they'd been to a few games without tickets and pretty much always managed to get in.Also told me that loads did it Thankfully he couldn't get the day off so didn't go.

#15 jonnybarr

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

My opening post doesn't once say think about the 96 people who lost their lives or who is to blame. It says we should all think about our own loved ones and where football lies on that list. As something like going to a football match can turn horribly wrong and everyone deserves to come home after a football match.

#16 JC Saviour

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:05 PM

Perhaps those who went without tickets should also take a minute to think.......

My heart goes out to those who lost family and friends that day.

No disrespect to you post, but the ones who went without tickets probably havent battered an eye lid for those who died. Scum of the earth. Liverpool supporters can all blame poor stewarding, poor Policing, bad tunnel design of the Lep end etc, but will never bring into the argument the root cause. I understand they still do it to this this day turning up without tickets. It must be a scouse thing!!!!!!!!!! What took place at Hillsborough that day has left an lasting impression of that club and it's set of so called fans. It makes my skin crawl when you see pictures on TV when matches are played at Anfield and they are giving it 'You'll never walk alone' Utter bolloxs.

#17 asteener1867

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:07 PM

well said
I have said it on here before when I was a student nurse at Middlewood I was working with a Liverpool fan. He asked me if I could get him a ticket, I couldn't. Not to worry he says me and me mates will do what we always do,force our way in. Went on to tell me they'd been to a few games without tickets and pretty much always managed to get in.Also told me that loads did it Thankfully he couldn't get the day off so didn't go.

I was a porter at the Hallamshire..on the fateful day...my wife was a nursing officer...she got called in as it unfolded...I went with her...We stayed until midnight..it was absolutely terrible....At about 9pm I was outside with a scouse lad who had just been told he'd lost a mate...theres nowt you can say...we just had a *** and tried to sort him out some transport back to Liverpool...at the time the liverpool lads were so grateful...for being let into houses on Vere rd...and given the telephone and a cuppa...
Honestly the first news I had at the hospital was that there had been 6 fatalities...I was staggered...then it started filtering through about just how many bodies were waiting for identification in the hospital...and I honestly felt sick...I felt sick for the Liverpool lads...but in all honesty in a selfish way I felt sick cos it had happened at Hillsborough.
As for the critics who slate the ambulance service, the hospital facilities...theres no way on earth you can cope with it...no matter how much hindsight is applied..it totally fvcks you up..it fvcks the system up...apart from the 96 deaths..can you imagine the numbers turning up at the A&E depts of the Northern and the Hallamshire at the time..it beggared belief...It was a day that passed in a blur.......it was a day that i now simply want to forget about....

#18 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:13 PM

I was a porter at the Hallamshire..on the fateful day...my wife was a nursing officer...she got called in as it unfolded...I went with her...We stayed until midnight..it was absolutely terrible....At about 9pm I was outside with a scouse lad who had just been told he'd lost a mate...theres nowt you can say...we just had a *** and tried to sort him out some transport back to Liverpool...at the time the liverpool lads were so grateful...for being let into houses on Vere rd...and given the telephone and a cuppa...
Honestly the first news I had at the hospital was that there had been 6 fatalities...I was staggered...then it started filtering through about just how many bodies were waiting for identification in the hospital...and I honestly felt sick...I felt sick for the Liverpool lads...but in all honesty in a selfish way I felt sick cos it had happened at Hillsborough.
As for the critics who slate the ambulance service, the hospital facilities...theres no way on earth you can cope with it...no matter how much hindsight is applied..it totally fvcks you up..it fvcks the system up...apart from the 96 deaths..can you imagine the numbers turning up at the A&E depts of the Northern and the Hallamshire at the time..it beggared belief...It was a day that passed in a blur.......it was a day that i now simply want to forget about....

Can't begin to imagine what it was like.

#19 jonnybarr

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:33 PM

No disrespect to you post, but the ones who went without tickets probably havent battered an eye lid for those who died. Scum of the earth. Liverpool supporters can all blame poor stewarding, poor Policing, bad tunnel design of the Lep end etc, but will never bring into the argument the root cause. I understand they still do it to this this day turning up without tickets. It must be a scouse thing!!!!!!!!!! What took place at Hillsborough that day has left an lasting impression of that club and it's set of so called fans. It makes my skin crawl when you see pictures on TV when matches are played at Anfield and they are giving it 'You'll never walk alone' Utter bolloxs.



#20 jonnybarr

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:40 PM

There are a lot of Liverpool fans who lost family members that day who bought tickets the right way so for u to say singing you'll never walk alone is a load of gonads means your a rumblein moron

#21 archway-owl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

I was a porter at the Hallamshire..on the fateful day...my wife was a nursing officer...she got called in as it unfolded...I went with her...We stayed until midnight..it was absolutely terrible....At about 9pm I was outside with a scouse lad who had just been told he'd lost a mate...theres nowt you can say...we just had a *** and tried to sort him out some transport back to Liverpool...at the time the liverpool lads were so grateful...for being let into houses on Vere rd...and given the telephone and a cuppa...
Honestly the first news I had at the hospital was that there had been 6 fatalities...I was staggered...then it started filtering through about just how many bodies were waiting for identification in the hospital...and I honestly felt sick...I felt sick for the Liverpool lads...but in all honesty in a selfish way I felt sick cos it had happened at Hillsborough.
As for the critics who slate the ambulance service, the hospital facilities...theres no way on earth you can cope with it...no matter how much hindsight is applied..it totally fvcks you up..it fvcks the system up...apart from the 96 deaths..can you imagine the numbers turning up at the A&E depts of the Northern and the Hallamshire at the time..it beggared belief...It was a day that passed in a blur.......it was a day that i now simply want to forget about....


I seriously bloody love you, by far my favourite owlstalk poster.

All these idiots wanting to look clever with big words and an extensive vocabulary that your average Jo wouldn't know should take a long look at this post and see, this is what makes a person special. This sort of action and selfless heroism by ateener and the others that day is what truly makes people special!!! and I bet you not one of them that day tried to make themselves look any more or less than the next person!

#22 fatzooma

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:43 PM

Personally, my thoughts are with the families of the 1500 plus who perished on the Titanic 100 years ago today..R.I.P

#23 archway-owl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:49 PM

Personally, my thoughts are with the families of the 1500 plus who perished on the Titanic 100 years ago today..R.I.P


Lets take nothing away from the families. My sympathies go out to everyone who's ever loved a lost one no matter how tragic or normal the circumstances, but all this justice nonsense that's always called for is never going to be that without the ticket-less being held accountable, and not once has a Liverpool fan asked for that! at least not publicly!

#24 daveyboy66

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:50 PM

I was a porter at the Hallamshire..on the fateful day...my wife was a nursing officer...she got called in as it unfolded...I went with her...We stayed until midnight..it was absolutely terrible....At about 9pm I was outside with a scouse lad who had just been told he'd lost a mate...theres nowt you can say...we just had a *** and tried to sort him out some transport back to Liverpool...at the time the liverpool lads were so grateful...for being let into houses on Vere rd...and given the telephone and a cuppa...
Honestly the first news I had at the hospital was that there had been 6 fatalities...I was staggered...then it started filtering through about just how many bodies were waiting for identification in the hospital...and I honestly felt sick...I felt sick for the Liverpool lads...but in all honesty in a selfish way I felt sick cos it had happened at Hillsborough.
As for the critics who slate the ambulance service, the hospital facilities...theres no way on earth you can cope with it...no matter how much hindsight is applied..it totally fvcks you up..it fvcks the system up...apart from the 96 deaths..can you imagine the numbers turning up at the A&E depts of the Northern and the Hallamshire at the time..it beggared belief...It was a day that passed in a blur.......it was a day that i now simply want to forget about....



My missus was part of the MAJAX team that day and had no idea what she was facing when she walked across the road to the NGH that day..as a theatre sister she had to dael with the patients without ever having a conversation with any of them which was heartbreaking for her

#25 apswfcowl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

My opening post doesn't once say think about the 96 people who lost their lives or who is to blame. It says we should all think about our own loved ones and where football lies on that list. As something like going to a football match can turn horribly wrong and everyone deserves to come home after a football match.


Maybe you didn't but what you did do is title this thread "JFT96" which carries far too many connotations and implications to avoid the replys you have got.

Today should just be a day to remember but by using that title you have missed your opportunity.

I actually think the comments on this thread have been thoughtful, sensitive and generally intelligent. Maybe a first for Owlstalk?!

#26 EcclesallOwl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:01 PM

Anybody watching FA Cup match?

Quite a few didn't want the minutes silence...
Sam Hutchinson

#27 JC Saviour

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:04 PM

There are a lot of Liverpool fans who lost family members that day who bought tickets the right way so for u to say singing you'll never walk alone is a load of gonads means your a rumblein moron

But then again I wasn't responsible but had to have it rammed down our throats that how bad our ground was/is, how bad the stewarding was, how bad was the Police was, but hey, lets not cloud the truth on who was the root cause of this disaster. I think its a bit crasse that all Liverpool fans at games sing that song when some of them in that crowd were culperable that day. So who's the fookin moron, muppet. By the way do have Liverpool connections by any chance ;-) .

#28 barmyowl1212

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:06 PM

Anybody watching FA Cup match?

Quite a few didn't want the minutes silence...


Shortest minute ever too!

#29 latemodelchild

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:16 PM

RIP the 96 innocents who lost their lives. Today is a day I remember them. Every other day I will debate the other issues surrounding it. Not today though, which is why I respectfully ask if a mod could change the title from JFT96 to RIP 96 or similar?

Anybody watching FA Cup match?

Quite a few didn't want the minutes silence...

Anybody watching FA Cup match?

Quite a few didn't want the minutes silence...

Was it observed?

#30 goodytheowl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

Observed very badly.

RIP to the 96.

Isn't this thread in the wrong section?

#31 EcclesallOwl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:17 PM

RIP the 96 innocents who lost their lives. Today is a day I remember them. Every other day I will debate the other issues surrounding it. Not today though, which is why I respectfully ask if a mod could change the title from JFT96 to RIP 96 or similar?



Was it observed?


Apparently Chelsea fans were chanting 'murderers'

The minute also lasted about 20 seconds
Sam Hutchinson

#32 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:18 PM

What really galls me is when the kop start singing justice for the 96 whilst standing
the irony of it all

#33 latemodelchild

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

Apparently Chelsea fans were chanting 'murderers'

The minute also lasted about 20 seconds

Disgraceful. The minutes silence is to remember and pay respects to 96 innocents who died, regardless of how it happened.

#34 asteener1867

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

What really galls me is when the kop start singing justice for the 96 whilst standing
the irony of it all

There are fans on that Kop that played no small part of what happened at Hillsborough...same as there are folk in high places in Sheffield...To me now...ive frankly had enough of it...
Do you absolve yourself of all self responsibility because you are a football fan?..no you fvckin' don't ...its as though someone else has to be held up to judgement because you should be spoon fed about where to go... what to do....
There is no way on earth that there were not LIverpool fans at Hillsborough that day..without tickets..anyone who says different is totally fvckin' deluded...I'm not saying it was their fault...but to accept they did not play a part in the tragedy is Lord of the fookin' rings fantasy..

#35 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:30 PM

Disgraceful. The minutes silence is to remember and pay respects to 96 innocents who died, regardless of how it happened.

Emotive subject though. How long do you carry it on? Do Man U expect every ground in the country to observe a silence for Munich? No. As somebody said how long will this go on, until the end of time,until justice, what ever form that will take is served. Over time and because of how the country is now people get tired for want of a better phrase of such things. I remember as a kid when everything and I mean everything traffic,shops people stopped doing what they were doing and stood still at 11 a.m. on the 11th November.

There are fans on that Kop that played no small part of what happened at Hillsborough...same as there are folk in high places in Sheffield...To me now...ive frankly had enough of it...
Do you absolve yourself of all self responsibility because you are a football fan?..no you fvckin' don't ...its as though someone else has to be held up to judgement because you should be spoon fed about where to go... what to do....
There is no way on earth that there were not LIverpool fans at Hillsborough that day..without tickets..anyone who says different is totally fvckin' deluded...I'm not saying it was their fault...but to accept they did not play a part in the tragedy is Lord of the fookin' rings fantasy..


see my post above. Think the football fans are getting that way

Edited by darra, 15 April 2012 - 05:31 PM.


#36 latemodelchild

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:36 PM

Emotive subject though. How long do you carry it on? Do Man U expect every ground in the country to observe a silence for Munich? No. As somebody said how long will this go on, until the end of time,until justice, what ever form that will take is served. Over time and because of how the country is now people get tired for want of a better phrase of such things. I remember as a kid when everything and I mean everything traffic,shops people stopped doing what they were doing and stood still at 11 a.m. on the 11th November.

If the FA deem that a minutes silence is to be observed then it should be. Its basic respect for fellow humans.

Personally, I dont think there needed to be a minutes silence but as there was, if I was there I would have observed it, as I do every one I'm asked to. If Liverpool and Everton wanted one yesterday then fine. If Liverpool want one at their closest game to the anniversary then I'm fine with that. The rest of the footballing world doesnt need to though.

#37 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:40 PM

If the FA deem that a minutes silence is to be observed then it should be. Its basic respect for fellow humans.

Personally, I dont think there needed to be a minutes silence but as there was, if I was there I would have observed it, as I do every one I'm asked to. If Liverpool and Everton wanted one yesterday then fine. If Liverpool want one at their closest game to the anniversary then I'm fine with that. The rest of the footballing world doesnt need to though.

Not sure it's the F.A's call
as for your other point re Liverpool yesterday I have no problem with that.
In some ways I prefer the minutes applause at least that way if you prefer not to you don't have to participate. With the silence the only alternative is to make noise which might offend others

#38 tilIdie

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:40 PM

With the absolute utmost respect and with my greatest sympathy for you and particularly your friend and his family, I feel that we (Wednesdayites) should be allowed to move on from this now. I support the '96' families campaign for full transparency, however, it's been 23 years now and I think it's time that SWFC and it's fans should be released from this hidden/implied burden of guilt that we have been carrying since that terrible day.

I do not wish to offend and I hope you appreciate my sincerity.


Well said Im fed up of being caught up in all this its the fans and SWFC what has been labled ie by safety groups for matches taking tottaly OTT steps to prevent problems what are not there in first point for example leaving blocks of empty seats empty when opposition fans are on a complete different stand. Liverpool dont go on and on and on and on and on and on about Heysel like man u dont go on and on about Munich. Its about time the innocent fans who turned up "with tickets" and "on time" and "not drunk" was let to rest in peice and also let SWFC try and get rid of this label what we have been tarnished with through no fault of our own and maybe remember ever 10 yrs but every year is just daft IMO.

#39 Dizzys Dad

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:40 PM

I am sure the minutes silence at Old Trafford was for the Italian player who died yesterday, not the Hillsborough 96.

#40 daveyboy66

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:40 PM

There are fans on that Kop that played no small part of what happened at Hillsborough...same as there are folk in high places in Sheffield...To me now...ive frankly had enough of it...
Do you absolve yourself of all self responsibility because you are a football fan?..no you fvckin' don't ...its as though someone else has to be held up to judgement because you should be spoon fed about where to go... what to do....
There is no way on earth that there were not LIverpool fans at Hillsborough that day..without tickets..anyone who says different is totally fvckin' deluded...I'm not saying it was their fault...but to accept they did not play a part in the tragedy is Lord of the fookin' rings fantasy..


Agree mate...at what point do you dissolve the liverpool fans for their part in it? Because as a fan in the 60s/70s I have to accept MY contribution to their being fences at Hilsborough

#41 ClaireTheDonnyOwl

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

Lets take nothing away from the families. My sympathies go out to everyone who's ever loved a lost one no matter how tragic or normal the circumstances, but all this justice nonsense that's always called for is never going to be that without the ticket-less being held accountable, and not once has a Liverpool fan asked for that! at least not publicly!


Exactly this.

I agree that today isn't the day to discuss who was to blame but I get sick of hearing all this JFT96 rubbish.

A number of factors caused the tragedy including the action of the Liverpool fans themselves. Nothing will ever change my view on that.

And the wire fences that were put up at the front of all football terraces that prevented people escaping the crush - why were they put up? Heysel. And who caused Heysel.....?

As I previously said my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones but all this justice rubbish needs to stop. If it doesn't my worry is the chants that the Chelsea fans were shouting may become a regular occurrence across the country.

And I'm so glad we no longer have a minutes silence at Hillsborough now.

#42 latemodelchild

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:44 PM

Not sure it's the F.A's call
as for your other point re Liverpool yesterday I have no problem with that.
In some ways I prefer the minutes applause at least that way if you prefer not to you don't have to participate. With the silence the only alternative is to make noise which might offend others

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2012/04/10/wembley-to-remember-hillsborough-victims-with-a-minutes-silence-before-fa-cup-semi-final-100252-30727007/

Looks like it was the FA who decided according to this article. Though to be fair they are over a barrell on this one, as its impossible to say no.

Also, I didnt see yesterdays game, did they play you'll never walk alone before the game? If so, did they play the Z Cars theme too?

#43 tilIdie

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:47 PM

I am sure the minutes silence at Old Trafford was for the Italian player who died yesterday, not the Hillsborough 96.


It was indeed for the Italian, Sir Alex asked for the minuites silence to be done.

#44 asteener1867

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:57 PM

If the FA deem that a minutes silence is to be observed then it should be. Its basic respect for fellow humans.

Personally, I dont think there needed to be a minutes silence but as there was, if I was there I would have observed it, as I do every one I'm asked to. If Liverpool and Everton wanted one yesterday then fine. If Liverpool want one at their closest game to the anniversary then I'm fine with that. The rest of the footballing world doesnt need to though.

I think the problem on here mate is that Wednesday fans are torn between sympathy for the 96 folk that died on that day...and what they really think about it...the reasons it happened and the responsibility for it.....Let me hold me hans up here....
I was partly responsible for all the sh*te that went on in the 70's...ive got into grounds for nowt..ive hopped through gates as Wednesday fans knocked them down at Port Vale, Halifax etc in the 70's...and theres hardly a footbll fan of my age that has not taken advantage of the sh*te that went on then...So in some way I...and thousands of others are responsible for fencing going up at football grounds...no bugger meant to kill any other bugger ..some wre more violent than others,,,I have never hit anyone at a football match unless they attacked me first...but all this sh*te culminated in Hillsborough 89...and Liverpool fans were not behind the door in bringing it about....
You get this media conception of Liverpool fans being this... "Hail fellow ...well met "..stuff ..its flipping garbage as any Wednesday fan who went to Anfield in the 80's will tell you...They were as bad..if not worse than any other group of hooligans in the country...Then there was Heysel...now who's fvckin' fault was that?...Liverpool Hooligans.....prepared to throw bricks...charge fences and cause panic in Juventus fans...did they mean to kill 39 of the poor bleeders?...did they hell...but they played a major part in the deaths of those 39 innocents...and anyone who thinks different is an inch offa stupid....So we arrive at Hillsborough...Were there Liverpool fans trying to get in without tickets?...of course there fvckin' were.....same as if it had been Wednesday away somewhere with tickets at a premium....
Liverpool fans bear some of the responsibility about Hillsborough '89....but no fvcker will hold their hands up..

Edited by asteener1867, 15 April 2012 - 05:58 PM.


#45 darra

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:05 PM

I think the problem on here mate is that Wednesday fans are torn between sympathy for the 96 folk that died on that day...and what they really think about it...the reasons it happened and the responsibility for it.....Let me hold me hans up here....
I was partly responsible for all the sh*te that went on in the 70's...ive got into grounds for nowt..ive hopped through gates as Wednesday fans knocked them down at Port Vale, Halifax etc in the 70's...and theres hardly a footbll fan of my age that has not taken advantage of the sh*te that went on then...So in some way I...and thousands of others are responsible for fencing going up at football grounds...no bugger meant to kill any other bugger ..some wre more violent than others,,,I have never hit anyone at a football match unless they attacked me first...but all this sh*te culminated in Hillsborough 89...and Liverpool fans were not behind the door in bringing it about....
You get this media conception of Liverpool fans being this... "Hail fellow ...well met "..stuff ..its flipping garbage as any Wednesday fan who went to Anfield in the 80's will tell you...They were as bad..if not worse than any other group of hooligans in the country...Then there was Heysel...now who's fvckin' fault was that?...Liverpool Hooligans.....prepared to throw bricks...charge fences and cause panic in Juventus fans...did they mean to kill 39 of the poor bleeders?...did they hell...but they played a major part in the deaths of those 39 innocents...and anyone who thinks different is an inch offa stupid....So we arrive at Hillsborough...Were there Liverpool fans trying to get in without tickets?...of course there fvckin' were.....same as if it had been Wednesday away somewhere with tickets at a premium....
Liverpool fans bear some of the responsibility about Hillsborough '89....but no fvcker will hold their hands up..



This
Problem is that the media still present this image of the red side and blue side of Liverpool being bezzy mates. We get all the crap about them sitting together in the ground and congratulating each other when one of them scores. The idea that yesterday when Carolle slotted in the winner an Everton fan sat next to his Liverpool mate and saying "Well done La maybe next year " and shaking him warmly by the hand. It's a media myth just like the one about the North east being a hot bed of football. Newcastle were getting crowds smaller than our porcine neighbours not many years ago

#46 barmyowl1212

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:39 PM

Exactly this.

I agree that today isn't the day to discuss who was to blame but I get sick of hearing all this JFT96 rubbish.

A number of factors caused the tragedy including the action of the Liverpool fans themselves. Nothing will ever change my view on that.

And the wire fences that were put up at the front of all football terraces that prevented people escaping the crush - why were they put up? Heysel. And who caused Heysel.....?

As I previously said my heart goes out to those who lost loved ones but all this justice rubbish needs to stop. If it doesn't my worry is the chants that the Chelsea fans were shouting may become a regular occurrence across the country.

And I'm so glad we no longer have a minutes silence at Hillsborough now.


Fact of the matter is had all those fans not turned up without a ticket and mixed with those with tickets and caused that large crowd outside Leppings lane then that wall might not have become unsafe with all the pressure on it. Had that fallen i bet fans would have been killed also. The police opened the gate to let fans in to get the pressure off that wall. Had the police thought about it a bit more they could have put police/stewards at the tunnel entrance and send fans round the side.

Had those without tickets not turned up like they were asked not too then we wouldnt have this every year.

Yes the fences played a part but why didnt this happen at every ground?

Simple matter of common sense,mostly from ticketless fans are to blame and a panicking actions from the police who tried to prevent one disaster but caused another by rushing and not thinking their actions through.

#47 parkfieldowl14

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

With the absolute utmost respect and with my greatest sympathy for you and particularly your friend and his family, I feel that we (Wednesdayites) should be allowed to move on from this now. I support the '96' families campaign for full transparency, however, it's been 23 years now and I think it's time that SWFC and it's fans should be released from this hidden/implied burden of guilt that we have been carrying since that terrible day.

I do not wish to offend and I hope you appreciate my sincerity.

excellent post. it's time to move on now.

#48 owl-zat

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:08 PM

I'm guessing a lot of the animosity from Chelsea fans would be due to them being made to play their semi final today because Liverpool won't play on 15th April and so Chelsea now have to play their Champions League semi final within 2 days.

Maybe its also due to some people trying to blame Heysel on Chelsea fans who had 'infiltrated' Liverpool fans on that night and caused the trouble.

#49 barmyowl1212

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 08:00 PM

I'm guessing a lot of the animosity from Chelsea fans would be due to them being made to play their semi final today because Liverpool won't play on 15th April and so Chelsea now have to play their Champions League semi final within 2 days.

Maybe its also due to some people trying to blame Heysel on Chelsea fans who had 'infiltrated' Liverpool fans on that night and caused the trouble.


I didnt know that one!

#50 jayzman

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

I was there that day - as an 18 year old working one of the turnstiles on Leppings Lane. Having to let three fans through at a time on one quarter turn of the stile because only one had a ticket and it was too crushed outside to turn them round. Dozens of times.

The real travesty is the 96 were there on time, safely, not drunk, with tickets...and those who campaign loudest (apart from the bereaved, for whom I have deepest sympathy) are the ones who were late, drunk and ticketless - much like the ones who came back to my turnstile at 3.15 (while I was still finishing) banging on the window blaming me for the problems.

Unfortunately, 'Justice' in this case doesn't actually mean Justice - it means scapegoat and it means SYP. They may not have been blameless, but they are not culpable.