Geörge Whitebread

FootballPredictions.com think we're not getting a single result that we want this weekend. They've got Huddersfield, Birmingham and QPR all down to win, and us, Blackburn, Stoke and Plymouth to draw.

So it should be Big 7? I reckon we'd struggle at that level these days, mate... even with a fit Poveda.

Again, literally nobody gives him zero credit for getting us promoted. The more accurate statement - i.e. some don't give him as much credit as I think he deserves - would be less dramatic; but it would be more honest.

We would have. Both statements are true.

At no point has anyone ever suggested that.

At some point we really MUST WIN one of these MUST WIN games...

No - we need all hands on deck at this point, not passengers.

Some criticisms, surely?! If you genuinely mean that all criticism is OTT, that's crazy. It's quite evident that he's not perfect. Nobody is. If the start point, when thinking about Darren Moore, is that he's black; no, it's not a huge leap. If his character and performance as a manager, or even just the results on the pitch mixed with a bit of post-game frustration/elation, is in mind; yes, it is a huge leap.

Chansiri clearly thought promotion-on-CV would lead to success without needing to invest in the squad, while Xisco thought Chansiri's supposed ambitions would mean he had the necessary tools to repeat what he did at Watford. When he then saw what he had to work with compared to what he remembered from his time at Watford, he thought the only way forward would be to park the bus and hope to nick the odd point. That was clearly the wrong approach (except against Ipswich, Southampton and Leeds, perhaps)

We're getting into it when we agreed there was no point, but the implications made it clear who they were directed at. And it's not right for such comments to go unchallenged just because the poster was too gutless to come out and say it. They cast the aspersions because they want other posters to see them. It's wrong, and people really ought to try much harder to play the ball not the man when these discussions arise.

He doesn't. That's exactly the point. Any suggestion that Xisco wasn't picking up the pieces of a chaotic summer and had a tough set off fixtures to kick off with was deemed to be some sort of sleight against Mr Moore, as part of a wider agenda, which could only be driven by you know what.

Yes. Indirect but heavily implied insinuations do differ from direct accusations... they're more mealy-mouthed. But yes, best to leave it there really.

Fair point. I'm misremembering the order of events, aren't I?! They did lose against Leeds, Leicester and Ipswich early on. I was thinking of the 4 consecutive wins that immediately followed them, and the solace I took from that when looking back at the result a month or so afterwards.

Some of the abuse has been absolutely wrong. I completely agree. Much of the criticism (the validity of which being subjective, of course) gets bundled up with the entirely unwarranted abuse and mislabelled as "hate" imho though. I DM'd admin about the accusations, yes. There's nothing to be gained in naming names and getting into a debate about indirect-but-heavily-implied insinuations.

You did. The point being made was that he doesn't appear to be an instant impact kinda guy, but maybe if he's given time at Port Vale he'll turn them around. It wasn't about blaming him for our relegation... which was followed up by a poor start on L1, as I said in an earlier post because I think @London_Owl had a point about patience being required to see results from DM. It didn't appear to be a dig. You just instinctively leaped to his defence despite there being no attack because you're part of... ...a group of posters on here that are vitriolic in their defence of Darren Moore and see anything other than w@nking him off as being "hate". This even extended to me pointing out that Southampton, Hull, Preston, Cardiff (flying early on), Leeds and Ipswich was a tough start to a new season with a new set of players that were cobbled together in a chaotic half pre-season. That was somehow deemed to be hating on the big man, apparently. And, when I say he did a fantastic job of turning the club around, leaving us in a much more positive place than he found us, and deserves enormous credit for that; but I didn't think he came across like Pep mk II in interviews because he spoke in cliches and often sounded more like a clueless praise n grumble caller than the manager because he didn't seem to have watched the same game as the rest of us, I get ludicrous accusations of racism thrown my way. I think there's a bit of projecting going on, personally.