deka51 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Brilliant players: If not for scandal Bobby Moore wouldnt have took Swannies place in would cup. Bronco v Hirst , difficult to call that one. I think it was Jack Charlton that took Swan's place at centre half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 It was that disaster against France in the Euro's....Springett took the blame although the defence was shi te Fully agree. unfortunately, England made a late change and played jack Charlton at CH instead of Swan. The floodlights were also very badly positioned. Only time Springett 'let England down'. He never played again, but that great lump Charlton did. I had no complaints of Charlton as a Manager, but as a CH he couldn't lick Swanny's boots. charlton didnt play his 1st england game till 1965 so he certainly didnt play in the france game which was 2 years earlier .............. as for layne he gets my vote as the best striker ive seen for wednesday by a gnats whisker from hirst ......like hirsty he was a decent keeper as well ,kept a clean sheet when he replaced the injured springett at half time in a match against blackpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbo48 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 i 'honestly' never understood why the crowd applauded on the day they came back... i looked on and thought 'these two sold the club i loved down the river, they threw a result, they shafted the club, their fellow players, and the fans, WHY APPLAUD, where's the rotten fruit?' i do personally think there not names to 'champion'... should anyone come on these pages and attempt to 'champion' a certain former chairman, they'd get short shrift... yet i imagine he though what he was doing at the time was right, you CAN'T be right throwing matches... You're right dnhc, it's never right to throw a match and is inexcusable. My understanding of it is that what they actually did was bet on a match they expected us to lose. The match in question against Ipswich ended up a 0-0 draw. If they'd agreed to throw it, why didn't Swan pull somebody down in the area and concede a penalty late on. I've read also that Tony Kay was Man of the Match. If I've got this wrong then will somebody put me right ? They were all stupid and I'm sure they've all admitted that. I think the upset for those of us who lived through it, was the loss of two of our best players and the subsequent cloud that hung over the club but the real anger I feel is over the massive cover up that meant that others who'd done much worse (allegedly) escaped with no punishment and in fact went on to enhance their careers and become household names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 You're right dnhc, it's never right to throw a match and is inexcusable. My understanding of it is that what they actually did was bet on a match they expected us to lose. The match in question against Ipswich ended up a 0-0 draw. If they'd agreed to throw it, why didn't Swan pull somebody down in the area and concede a penalty late on. I've read also that Tony Kay was Man of the Match. If I've got this wrong then will somebody put me right ? They were all stupid and I'm sure they've all admitted that. I think the upset for those of us who lived through it, was the loss of two of our best players and the subsequent cloud that hung over the club but the real anger I feel is over the massive cover up that meant that others who'd done much worse (allegedly) escaped with no punishment and in fact went on to enhance their careers and become household names. they lost 2-0 .....and layne pleaded guilty to the charge. ....having a bet on a football match isnt a criminal offence . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbo48 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Thanks torryowl I apologise for the mis information. I though that's what I'd read, I was obviously mistaken. The last part of my post I still stand by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyboy66 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 charlton didnt play his 1st england game till 1965 so he certainly didnt play in the france game which was 2 years earlier .............. as for layne he gets my vote as the best striker ive seen for wednesday by a gnats whisker from hirst ......like hirsty he was a decent keeper as well ,kept a clean sheet when he replaced the injured springett at half time in a match against blackpool. Didn't they play Ron Flowers instead of Swanny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigthinrob Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Don't want to take too much of a moral standpoint, they were punished, but let's not forget they bet on Wednesday to lose a game and did everything in their power to make this happen. I remember when Peter Swan played his comeback game and was almost treated like a returning hero!! They were all masterful players, all three of them, but they threw a game. Doesn't get a whole lot worse, so for me any comparisons are almost worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Didn't they play Ron Flowers instead of Swanny? brian labone was the centre half with bobby moore & flowers as the wing halves .....swan hadnt played for england in nearly a year when the match was played and never played a game under ramsay .......why people think he would have played in the world cup but for the ban is a mystery to me . Thanks torryowl I apologise for the mis information. I though that's what I'd read, I was obviously mistaken. The last part of my post I still stand by. you could be right ,we´ll never know ......its quite possible if layne hadnt admitted his guilt to the newspaper then swan & kay may have got away with it as well but once he had they were well and truly shafted . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredmciverslovechild Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Don't want to take too much of a moral standpoint, they were punished, but let's not forget they bet on Wednesday to lose a game and did everything in their power to make this happen. I remember when Peter Swan played his comeback game and was almost treated like a returning hero!! They were all masterful players, all three of them, but they threw a game. Doesn't get a whole lot worse, so for me any comparisons are almost worthless. Even though Tony Kay was named in the papers as man of the match? As for throwing it.....well, you obviously haven't read Swanny's auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philby Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Interesting to read all this. It was before my time but remember seeing Swan making a comeback after the ban was lifted and wondering who he was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 i 'honestly' never understood why the crowd applauded on the day they came back... i looked on and thought 'these two sold the club i loved down the river, they threw a result, they shafted the club, their fellow players, and the fans, WHY APPLAUD, where's the rotten fruit?' i do personally think there not names to 'champion'... should anyone come on these pages and attempt to 'champion' a certain former chairman, they'd get short shrift... yet i imagine he though what he was doing at the time was right, you CAN'T be right throwing matches... of course they did wrong, but need to put it into the context of the days when wages were a pittance. The actual prison sentence and been banned for life was way over the top though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Even though Tony Kay was named in the papers as man of the match? As for throwing it.....well, you obviously haven't read Swanny's auto. i have read it ,having pleaded not guilty he isnt going to say that he lied in court is he ........the charge they got sent down for was conspiracy to defraud in other words fixing games ......that layne pleaded guilty suggests swan and kay probably were as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torryowl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 of course they did wrong, but need to put it into the context of the days when wages were a pittance. The actual prison sentence and been banned for life was way over the top though. they were part of a group who conned many thousands of pounds thru betting on matches were they knew the result beforehand .....3 months in prison wasnt a bad result as some of the group got longer with the main man getting 4 years ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 they were part of a group who conned many thousands of pounds thru betting on matches were they knew the result beforehand .....3 months in prison wasnt a bad result as some of the group got longer with the main man getting 4 years ..... News of the world broke the news, there were main instigators who got away without charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 they lost 2-0 .....and layne pleaded guilty to the charge. ....having a bet on a football match isnt a criminal offence . what was the 'charge', match fixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 of course they did wrong, but need to put it into the context of the days when wages were a pittance. The actual prison sentence and been banned for life was way over the top though. i'll bet his wage was light years more than my father got for working in a coal mine at that time... had he been caught doing something seriously wrong, he'd have been sacked, and may have faced prison too... in comparison to the 'average' working man, they had a very good life, and by the sounds of it, a very bright future too... it may be they took the 'risk' cos it was so widespread, and 'everyone else' was doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jack Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 what was the 'charge', match fixing?[/quote Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 what was the 'charge', match fixing?[/quote Yes yeah! cheers... i hadn't seen torryowl's explanatory post when i posted... so i guess this was the 'start' of our demise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 you'd guess with the world cup comin' up... the 'powers that be' wouldn't want a 'HUGE' max fixing scandall breaking in 'the host' nation... so best if a lid was kept on it no doubt... or the 'question' would be, how much did the russian linesman get 'bunged', to say hurst's shot had crossed the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorian gray Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Don't want to take too much of a moral standpoint, they were punished, but let's not forget they bet on Wednesday to lose a game and did everything in their power to make this happen. I remember when Peter Swan played his comeback game and was almost treated like a returning hero!! They were all masterful players, all three of them, but they threw a game. Doesn't get a whole lot worse, so for me any comparisons are almost worthless. if you've ever played as part of a c/b 'pairing' you know you have to have each other's back, to supply cover... i'd be 'covering' everything he did, thinkin' 'has this **** taken a wedge to let somebody through?' 'has he had 5 bob on their c/f to score a hat trick?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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