Quick look at the league table tonight...

[S36 OWL]

Mandaric has brought this on himself by trying to run things on the cheap as usual by having a paper thin squad lacking any real quality apart from Westwood , Lees and Loovens , then trying to ponce players for nowt off other clubs all season to save a few quid . should have back Gray when we had that brilliant start ,but as we know the tight old git only reacts when we are getting near the bottom feeders. 

[horny owl]

It pleases me to see Rotherham in the relegation zone.

[Arthur Bach]

Mandaric has brought this on himself by trying to run things on the cheap as usual by having a paper thin squad lacking any real quality apart from Westwood , Lees and Loovens , then trying to ponce players for nowt off other clubs all season to save a few quid . should have back Gray when we had that brilliant start ,but as we know the tight old git only reacts when we are getting near the bottom feeders. 

 

We have been doing that for the last ten years.

 

Bougherra, Brunt, Whelan, Maclean, Buxton et al were all on the cheap or free.

 

Your arguement holds no water.

[since59owe]

MM should have backed SG after that start we had.

Terrible decision not to.

yep

[adelphi1867]

FFS!, there are 28 games left to play,84 pts, and yet some one here already have us relegated.

Yes we will not bother the top 6 this season, I never thought we would, but neither will we bother the bottom 3.

[The Night-Owl]

Derby County look like running away with the League.

The other top spot and play-off positions are wide open.

We look being drawn into the dogfight.

Keys for me for success is investment, squad, defensive platform, attacking threat and team spirit.

Last season under Gray and at times this season, particularily early on we had team spirit and we were a danger to other teams. But thereafter our good start and momentum was undone by our threadbare squad and a lack of investment/backing.

It could've been so different if Gray was backed early on in the season.

Instead it feels like a case of deja-vu, eventually MM's method of doing things on the cheap, relying on loanees and making the manager the fall guy time and time again will backfire.

A team that draws plenty and hardly scores will struggle.

I notice Charlton are draw specialists like us but there's a vast difference between investment, squads and attacking threat.

I can see them spending, scoring more than us and turning likely draws into wins.

Whereas I can see our reliance on Westwood and the defence continuing but eventually we will start conceding again but our luck in front of goal as little chance of changing unless we bring in some attacking threat and quality.

I feel sorry for Gray cos at the end of the day he is the fall guy and if he gets axes at some point this season whoever comes in will have all the same problems. Unless we take more risks, attack more and bring in some quality, it looks like another topsy-turvy season of scraping by and hoping there are three worser teams than us.

[Guest Distraught!]

FFS!, there are 28 games left to play,84 pts, and yet some one here already have us relegated.

Yes we will not bother the top 6 this season, I never thought we would, but neither will we bother the bottom 3.

 

On the other hand, we have managed one single, solitary goal all month.

 

With only the one game left in November, that is not looking too promising.

[Arthur Bach]

How exactly should MM have backed Gray and to what end?

 

To finish 12th rather than 16th?

 

The witch hunt against Mandaric is baffling.

 

About time you all turned off your Champ Man games.

[The Night-Owl]

How exactly should MM have backed Gray and to what end?

To finish 12th rather than 16th?

The witch hunt against Mandaric is baffling.

About time you all turned off your Champ Man games.

People are catching on to MM's methods.

In the past the managers have faced the blame but what good is changing the manager repeatedly if whoever is in charge as the same miniscule budget and threadbare unbalanced squad to work with? It's a results based business and yes players and coaches do share some of the blame but look at the bigger picture, its getting harder to compete at this level. More and more teams have got more cash and quality, the continous cycle of MM's cheap method will eventually backfire with the inevitable drop this season or next and MM's own methods are hurting himself, the more we struggle and if we go down the more money he will lose and the harder it will be to find a buyer.

[Arthur Bach]

People are catching on to MM's methods.

In the past the managers have faced the blame but what good is changing the manager repeatedly if whoever is in charge as the same miniscule budget and threadbare unbalanced squad to work with? It's a results based business and yes players and coaches do share some of the blame but look at the bigger picture, its getting harder to compete at this level. More and more teams have got more cash and quality, the continous cycle of MM's cheap method will eventually backfire with the inevitable drop this season or next and MM's own methods are hurting himself, the more we struggle and if we go down the more money he will lose and the harder it will be to find a buyer.

 

So all that excludes Gray from criticism over his tactics and selections?

 

Some serious questions need asking in the dressing room.

 

In the past we have been fighting relegation but often playing well, at the very least scoring...with our backs against the wall it often brings out the best in players.

 

We're not even doing that now.

[steelowl]

Derby County look like running away with the League.

The other top spot and play-off positions are wide open.

We look being drawn into the dogfight.

Keys for me for success is investment, squad, defensive platform, attacking threat and team spirit.

Last season under Gray and at times this season, particularily early on we had team spirit and we were a danger to other teams. But thereafter our good start and momentum was undone by our threadbare squad and a lack of investment/backing.

It could've been so different if Gray was backed early on in the season.

Instead it feels like a case of deja-vu, eventually MM's method of doing things on the cheap, relying on loanees and making the manager the fall guy time and time again will backfire.

A team that draws plenty and hardly scores will struggle.

I notice Charlton are draw specialists like us but there's a vast difference between investment, squads and attacking threat.

I can see them spending, scoring more than us and turning likely draws into wins.

Whereas I can see our reliance on Westwood and the defence continuing but eventually we will start conceding again but our luck in front of goal as little chance of changing unless we bring in some attacking threat and quality.

I feel sorry for Gray cos at the end of the day he is the fall guy and if he gets axes at some point this season whoever comes in will have all the same problems. Unless we take more risks, attack more and bring in some quality, it looks like another topsy-turvy season of scraping by and hoping there are three worser teams than us.

boom   - but no lets be fickle and fawn over the guy who when given a decent player/s  wickham/ fryat saved us from almost certain relegation imo and then when given meagre funds and a thin squad this season cant continue the fabulous early season form

 

Re blaming MM  nope don't blame him for being careful with his project but It's a fact that he hasn't the ambition and or available funds to make us anything more than a lower third team scrabbling around reduced to clear bins every season til we are sold  

[The Night-Owl]

So all that excludes Gray from criticism over his tactics and selections?

 

Some serious questions need asking in the dressing room.

 

In the past we have been fighting relegation but often playing well, at the very least scoring...with our backs against the wall it often brings out the best in players.

 

We're not even doing that now.

it doesn't exclude him from any criticism. It's a collective sigh of frustration from me, down from the boardroom, to the coaching staff and the players, who all deserve some blame. But despite the resources at Gray's disposal and his pitiful budget to work with, we're still above where we should be with this squad and our budget given to him by MM. You're overlooking the fact we were playing attacking football, playing well without fear and had an attacking threat and good team spirit last season under Gray and at the start of this season. But Gray is working with his hands tied behind his back, the time to have backed him was in the summer or during the decent start to the season.

 

MM is setting Gray up to be the fall guy and to take the flak away from him, just like our two previous managers.

If Gray was backed then the buck would stop with him but I'm afraid he's fighting a losing battle with our squad and budget, and till now he's over-achieved.

If we finish where we are or around where we are it will be an over-achievement but with our squad, budget and with our lack of goals, finishing where we are is looking less and less likely. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by MilansMissingMarbles

[Arthur Bach]

Let's just get one thing straight.

 

Gray's budget is not 'pitiful'...

 

We're hardly flush obviously but lets just put that myth to bed.

[The Night-Owl]

Let's just get one thing straight.

 

Gray's budget is not 'pitiful'...

 

We're hardly flush obviously but lets just put that myth to bed.

So it's a Championship competitive budget and MM should take no blame whatsoever because Gray and his team of superstars should be in or around the top 6 at least?

Wake up it's not the 1980's or 90's.

[S36 OWL]

We have been doing that for the last ten years.

 

Bougherra, Brunt, Whelan, Maclean, Buxton et al were all on the cheap or free.

 

Your arguement holds no water.

 

but they were our OWN players contracted to the club, so we still made an investment . Under Mandaric we dont sign our own , he would rather ponce players off other clubs to save wages. 

[steelowl]

Let's just get one thing straight.

 

Gray's budget is not 'pitiful'...

 

We're hardly flush obviously but lets just put that myth to bed.

 

TBH I do not know all the comparative budgets do you?

 

You want SG blamed for lack of coaching /managing results  yet not MM for failure to make funds available to make us competitive

 

The surely unarguable fact is MM cannot compete with the parachute clubs or the more ambitious wolves and forest type clubs Nothing will change at this club til we get investment be it with MM or instead 

[S36 OWL]

People are catching on to MM's methods.

In the past the managers have faced the blame but what good is changing the manager repeatedly if whoever is in charge as the same miniscule budget and threadbare unbalanced squad to work with? It's a results based business and yes players and coaches do share some of the blame but look at the bigger picture, its getting harder to compete at this level. More and more teams have got more cash and quality, the continous cycle of MM's cheap method will eventually backfire with the inevitable drop this season or next and MM's own methods are hurting himself, the more we struggle and if we go down the more money he will lose and the harder it will be to find a buyer.

 

Your spot on. If you continuously swin round the plughole sooner or later you will vanish down it. Mandaric`s yearly goame of russian roulette is a very dangerous game to play because relegation would wipe millions off the value of the club. 

[Arthur Bach]

So it's a Championship competitive budget and MM should take no blame whatsoever because Gray and his team of superstars should be in or around the top 6 at least?

Wake up it's not the 1980's or 90's.

 

Eh?

 

Where did I say that?

 

Like a lot of budgets in the Championship ours is lean and strict with little chance of over-stretching. Which means you have to get the best out of the budget and players at your disposal.

 

Gray has not utilised the resources efficently in my opinion. The Hallam Hope loan was a disaster and although I am a fan of him as a player the Taylor-Fletcher loan isn't shaping up well. Drenthe was often sacrificed at the start of the season also with him apparantly "Not being able to play for 90 minutes..."

 

However, according to you, Mandaric is simply being tight and you expect money to be thrown at the issue.

 

He won't spend money when it's clear improvements can be made already.

[owls maniac]

How exactly should MM have backed Gray and to what end?

To finish 12th rather than 16th?

The witch hunt against Mandaric is baffling.

About time you all turned off your Champ Man games.

The tight git argument is outrageously unfair. Milan is losing millions on us each year.

[Arthur Bach]

TBH I do not know all the comparative budgets do you?

 

You want SG blamed for lack of coaching /managing results  yet not MM for failure to make funds available to make us competitive

 

The surely unarguable fact is MM cannot compete with the parachute clubs or the more ambitious wolves and forest type clubs Nothing will change at this club til we get investment be it with MM or instead 

 

Sheffield Wednesday have been in limbo for the last 10-12 years. The slow decline and ultimate stabilisation allows us the luxury of generally knowing what each incumbant has in terms of resources. Very little changes year on year as far as we are concerned.

 

To suggest you can compare the respective responsibilities of manager and chairman is unfair. I believe Mandaric is doing everything in his power to help the club on a day-to-day basis.

 

I don't believe Gray is doing his very best which, in turn, moots this constantly hailed mantra that is working wonders with his hands tied behind his back. I think sub-consciously people know this, and even feel a little embarrassed at our current plight but are unable to fully admit that we are faltering on the pitch.

 

I'm not talking budgets and transfer fees - but corners, subs and crossing the ball from wide.

 

We're talking the fundamentals here, that we are either not doing or failing at.

 

We are atrocious at the minute, and Gray needs to overhaul our mind-set for those paying £30 on the day.

 

Or he is out.