Hillsborough Memorial

[GY-owl.4]

So clearly articulated, a fine intellect at work.

deep thinker aint ya! 

 

its a forum... whats YOUR thoughts.

[Guest Distraught!]

Yep, I could never understand why memorial services for those on the Titanic are not held where the ship sank. 

[darklord]

Why is the service to mark 25th anniversary of tragedy taking place at Anfield and not the place were it happened HILLSBOROUGH.

 

Just a thought thats all.

 

 

Because its never been about Hillsborough or SWFC or Notts Forest its always been about Liverpool. no one else was there that day.

[southportdc]

Remember when those fans were killed on the way back from Coventry and we all stood on the M6 for a minute's silence before the next game?

 

Oh no we stayed where everyone was gathered together already and paid our respects there.

 

Weird.

[londonowl1986]

Yawn.

[Corneliusreeve]

He won't help.

You're right you can't rely on anbody these days.

[hdan450]

Good point.

I always have my Birthday party at the Northern General.

Haha

 

This was literally one of the funniest things I have read on here for some time

 

Top marks

[shandypants]

I just hope that the result of the inquest can be accepted by all irrespective of the decision.  In a situation where there appears to be two opposing views (and groups for that matter), someone will be upset unless the coroner can produce a verdict that appeases all parties.  My fear is that the shoddy way in which the families of the 96 victims have been treated and the sense of injustice that they feel will not allow them the perspective they need.  I may be absolutely wrong but my feeling is that the families of the 96 victims will not accept any verdict other than the fault lies with "the authorities" on that day'. My further fear is that the Hillsborough Disaster is such a political "hot potato" that we may get a "political" decision where some people unjustly suffer for the "greater good".  One thing for certain is that the new coroner lies between the devil and the deep blue sea - would you want to be making a decision of possibly (probably) the most political and emotive British disaster of the last 25 years?  I know I wouldn't. 

 

The whole thing is a terrible mess and I personally believe that, like most situations like this, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the opposing views, opinions and/or arguments.  Tragically, at the heart of this mess is the lost lives of the 96 victims - all of whom deserve the truth first and foremeost and justice only if it is deemed applicable and that justice must be an appropriate justice not one that is driven by grief and anger.   

[jamsandwich]

Yeah my dad drove past on the day, said it was ridiculous before KO, people climbing over turnstiles to get into the game.

OR people climbing over the turnstiles to escape the crush outside the ground.

[Lythamowl]

OR people climbing over the turnstiles to escape the crush outside the ground.

 

I can assure you from working on the day they were climbing over to get in well before the crush

Edited April 16, 2014 by Lythamowl

[jamsandwich]

absolute nonsense.

from the CCTV footage they are climbing out of crushed areas and sitting on the wall - not jumping over and rushing into the ground.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

[Guest Big Guns]

absolute nonsense.

from the CCTV footage they are climbing out of crushed areas and sitting on the wall - not jumping over and rushing into the ground.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

so your one of them who things the ticketless drunk fans were totaly innocent then 

[Guest Distraught!]

I can assure you from working on the day they were climbing over to get in well before the crush

 

Yet even with the ones that climbed over the turnstiles and an open gate that people could freely walk through, the Health & Safety Executive have done numerous counts on the number of people stood on the Lower Leppings Lane terrace at the time of the deaths and each time the count has come back around 200 LESS than the stated capacity. Weird that!

[ruscol85]

The anniversary has been and gone. As has my interest in this now. Save it for 5 years time....

[Guest Big Guns]

y issue is that blame cannot be apportioned to one individual, group or organisation. There were a unique set of failures from almost every angle that led to disaster.

1) The police cocked up on multiple occasions, starting with giving the match day commander job to a novice to seemingly make an internal political point. That was compounded on the day with the decisions made, not least the order to open the gates (which, remember, was done to prevent crushing outside and the potential collapse of a wall onto fans) without a clear internal plan beyond that.

2) The club didn't have a safety certificate and the structure of the pens were all wrong as well as the general design of the stand, the terraces and ability of the stewarding, compounding the crushing internally. Some club turnstile operators may have even taken backhanders to let fans in, adding to the internal problems before the gates were opened.

3) The government in their wisdom deciding treating all football fans as scum and making pens accepted practice. Without pens there wouldn't have been the internal crushing.

4) Despite pleading their innocence and no-one being allowed to say so anymore for fear of repercussions for upsetting a whole city, there were a number of drunken ticketless Liverpool fans, with a history of turning up at the last moment, intent on getting in. Without it the crush outside would probably never have happened, which was the lighting of the proverbial touchpaper.

5) The emergency response was late, ineffective and full of issues in itself, not least the delay in helping people, the refusal to let ambulances near, the poor facilities and ability of people on-hand.

And more and more will out about it.

All-in-all, if just one or two of these things had happened the disaster might not have (evidenced perhaps by issues at the previous year's semi-final), but all of them together led to the problems and all involved should take blame.

Families want justice, but what 'justice' can there be? That's the big question. What would satisfy the families and campaigners after all this time?

However, all that said, unfortunately the innocent ones who had tickets, got there early and wanted to watch and support their team are the victims and yesterday was about remembering those people, not about the blame game. No-one should go to enjoy a football match and die because of it like that.

4 hrs Â· 4

 

 

i saw this post on facebook earlier not from a friend of mine but it popped up its from someone who probably posts on here not mentioming names but i reckon this just about nails it

[Guest Distraught!]

Why would fans being drunk or not have a ticket result in nearly twice the safe capacity going into Pens 3 & 4 but less than half the safe capacity going into the outer pens? I don't see the connection. Did fans that were drunk or ticketless feel obliged just to enter Pens 3 & 4?

[markowl]

There are drunks at EVERY football match I attend.

How come on this one occasion out of thousands and thousands of matches, they are to blame?

[richowl]

There are drunks at EVERY football match I attend.

How come on this one occasion out of thousands and thousands of matches, they are to blame?

The innocent one's are those that passed away.

There are many contributing factors from that day. Some more than others.

The latecomers be it drunk, sober, ticketless played a part.

There would've been a major crush outside had the gate not been opened.

The major question though is why didn't the fans go in the near empty 'pens'?

[Tamworthowl]

OR people climbing over the turnstiles to escape the crush outside the ground.

I don't understand this comment. Can you explain why anyone would climb the turnstiles to escape the crush?

The video you posted a link to shows a crush OUTSIDE the turnstiles (hence the opening of the exit gate). The other crush was in the central pen and tunnel under the upper West stand. If you escape the crush in the central pen you get into the relatively spacious area at the back of the stand. Why jump turnstiles to get out and into another crowded area?

[fife_owl]

It's impossible to get justice, IMO. But I can understand the need for justice.

The only sure fact in all of this is that the only innocents were the 96.